he is charged a trip to the mound. On the second visit the pitcher must be removed. This is a good common sense rule that both promotes/limits strategy and adds intrigue.
Crossing the line is not limited to pitching changes in life and in softball as it also refers to socially unacceptable behavior. Recently two Big Apple League Crossing the Line Events have occurred:
#1 Highlander Conduct Incident
On consecutive weekends the Highlanders were involved in very ugly and dangerous near brawl situations. Clearly their code of conduct has crosses the line.
Insider Analysis:
It's easy to sit here and place all blame on the Highlander's when in reality I can see their point on several issues. For example, high elbow collisions, poor officiating, or illegal pitching. However, regardless of how valid their points are their method of expressing their displeasure is poor and unacceptable. Many advocate throwing them out of the league, and who knows it may come to that, but when you take into consideration :
(A) The blatant failure of the league to hold anyone, on either side, accountable for their first incident with Brother Jimmy's.( I mean come on a whole week goes by and nothing is done?) how can you expect the Highlanders to conform or adjust when they never even got a slap on the wrist. I don't want to hear excuses. No action on incident #1 is just bad. Frustrations and feelings over these kind of events just nester, build up over time, and get worse if they are not dealt with immediately. Poor behavior needs to be nipped in the bud.
(B) Their manager Dio Jackson, who has helped the league on occasion and built a very good team, was on vacation this past weekend and had no control over the terrible actions of his players. Dio is not a Saint, but deserves one last chance to control and re-focus his troops.
Taking into account the league's poor bureaucracy and Jackson's absence/service the Insider recommends a steep suspensions for all guilty players and a one-time final warning/reprimand to the Highlanders as a team.
#2 West resigns from Big Apple League
West wishes to leave the leave the BASL immediately if the league is willing to return their pro-rata fee. The reason for withdrawal is that they feel the new umpires are just paying lip service to the fact that they are enforcing modified pitching rules, but have not called enough pitches in any game to disqualify any obvious sling pitchers. They feel many other leagues have a banned pitchers list and more of the pitchers from these banned lists are gravitating to the Big Apple League every year. In other words, they are sick and tired of sling.
Insider Analysis: Mad respect to West. You can say what you want about West, but this takes balls, The Big Apple League has been warned and warned and warned and warned and warned (how many fucking blogs already- sheesh), but has never listened. Clearly West feels the pitching situation has crossed the line of fairness. Can you blame them?
The Mother's Day bye comes at a good time for a league in crisis. Hopefully, the lines of sportsmanship and fairness can be re-drawn in a just and fair manner in the days ahead. Otherwise everything will just keep going foul with no clear barriers in place.
That’s one take on the situation at hand, here’s another point of view. Accountability starts at the introduction of Armando to the league. This is advertised as a modified league, even under the most liberal of rule definitions, Armando is not modified. In an effort to compete with Choice Parts, not John Brown, but the team as a whole, Diesel chose to nullify their offense through means that are less than honorable. The line you spoke about in your blog was totally erased and placed right before Karlos can be allowed to pitch. Diesel blatantly challenged the ruling government that turned a blind eye, and in turn, fostered yet more previously deemed illegal pitchers back into the league.
ReplyDeleteThe Highlanders had to have felt somewhat cheated, facing Brother Jimmy’s pitching and then Armando on consecutive weeks. What happened with the Highlanders has been a fuse that has been lit for some time now and will remain lit until something is done. It’s easy to sit on the illegal pitching perch and cast opinions and request hand slaps to teams that conform to the league rules. Does the best team win, or the best pitcher? I say that if a pitching machine is placed on the pitcher’s mound and we play the nine players from each team you would really see what you and other teams are trying to accomplish.
I can only assume that a majority of the teams feel as I do but have become numb. Highlanders, who start their first season, are still very susceptible and have to feel like they’ve been taken.
I was watching game 2 versus West. Miranda wasn't even pitching at 8 o'clock which is illegal but at times nearly 10 o'clock. Just throw over hand. He literally threw a pitch nearly over hand. The league has lost total control. I don't blame West one bit. Why bother playing! You could see this coming. If the pitching isn't resolved to modified soon, the league doesn't exist in two years. I support West 100%.
ReplyDeleteWondering if John Rosenmiller, who evidently wrote the first comment ,understands that the pitching problems actually started well over 10 years ago when he introduced John Brown to the League.
ReplyDeleteLOL I agree that It appears that John Rosenmiller wrote the first comment. I hope that John Rosenmiller realizes that we are in the mess in the first place because of his10 plus years of defending the illegal motion of John Brown who may be banned in more leagues than not. And after watching John put Miranda out there to throw open sling for an entire game it seems that his motto is "Do what I say and I'll do whatever I want to do whenever I want to do it" And blaming the thuggish behavior of the Highlanders on the pitching situation is a joke. If one can't see the problem is a lot deeper than that they are kidding themselves. By the way if John feels that the pitching The Highlanders faced is the reason they acted as they did, would he then agree to not start John Brown and Miranda when they play so as not to add fuel to the fire. Let's stop blaming violent behavior on others and put the blame where it belongs...on the perpetrators themselves.
ReplyDeleteAccusing John Rosenmiller without proof is very wrong !!! I don’t like to sign these damm things because I am non-confrontational by nature, particularly when stating an opinion, as I see it, not fact based. However, seeing someone else being accused for my writings, usurps my nature, and I Wilfredo Enriquez, not John Rosenmiller, posted the first response.
ReplyDeleteI don’t like the fact that I in some manner am defending Choice Parts, but the fact is that John Brown is not dominating, and Miranda and Langer, although totally illegal, are not in the same league as Rocker and Armando. And to finish the sequence, Armando and Rocker are not in the same league as Karlos, close, but therein lies the conundrum. If you allow Karlos to pitch, there goes the league, currently the pitching weak are content with the morsels they are getting and the league continues to tread water.
An actual opinion is that if you want to promote the league and grow as modified then you ONLY allow modified. Don’t care if you rock as long as you are square to the plate from beginning to end, non-contact with your leg and closed arm (9:00 maximum). The ten on the field win and not the one.
And I was not defending the Highlanders behavior, however, I will not completely condemn it either. It’s wrong and shouldn’t be tolerated the same as the other league illegalities. Point your finger all you want but until you truly address the core of this problem, the tail will continue to wag the dog.
These are nothing more than opinions, and should be digested only as opinions.
Diesel is a joke of a team. Without Armando, they wouldn't even make the playoffs.
ReplyDeleteI TOLD EVERYONE this would happen! A league in existence for decades is now imperiled because of the mercenary managers, illegal pitching + A96 element. For West, the "bad boys" of the last several years to quit, that's really something. Many of those guys have been in the league forever. My prediction of losing 3 teams next year is already coming true. This is what happens when only self-interest is served. I should be named Commissioner for Life. The whole idea of league by committee is an utter failure. Stop blaming the umps and everyone stop being such assholes. It didn't used to be like this.
ReplyDeleteDear Ricky & BASL Members,
ReplyDeleteIf we implement bunting and stealing, that will give the offense what it deserves. Which is the consequence of a pitcher throwing a wild pitch, or the catcher allowing a past ball.
Forcing the Pitcher and defense to be accountable for wild pitches, past balls and stolen bases would charge the offense.
They just get to throw and no matter where the ball goes it's just a ball.
Imagine, bases loaded, bottom of the 7th and the pitcher feeling the pressure of a past ball. That changes the game instantly.
The odds are already in the defense's favor, and there's no butting or stealing for an offense - that's the real crime here.
I enjoy facing the best pitchers the city has to offer, but you're never going to please all the people all the time; this debate goes on every year and nothing changes. Every team wants to win, and we all will bend the rules as far as we can to do so.
But, a guy throwing side arm in an under-hand pitching league is a joke. I saw it on Sunday too, I don't blame West, either; and, I agree with Ricky, let him throw over hand. I'd prefer that, too.
In conclusion, the best way to save this is to give the offense what it RIGHTLY DESERVES...
that is, the ability to bunt and steal.
Then we'll see who the real pitchers are.
Sincerely,
James Schram
RFNY #23
I welcome talking to all the Anonymouses about whatever his/their beef is if you/they had enough self respect to stand up and say what you think without hiding behind your A.
ReplyDeleteOne, I did not write any comment in the blog except this one. I suggest that Ricky remove all responses in the future that are not signed so that his blog become a forum for serious discussion by people who are willing to stand behind their own words.
Two, the Anonymous who says I have spent 10 years defending the illegal motion of John Brown is simply ignorant. I have always been honest about the part of JB's motion that is illegal. Anyone who says JB throws slingshot simply doesn't understand what a slingshot motion is. Go do your homework.
Three, the same Anonymous who says that I "blame the thuggish behavior of the Highlanders on the pitching situation" is just a liar with no proof. Back up what you are saying or be man enough to publicly retract it. YOU clearly have already convicted the Highlanders of "thuggish" behavior but lack the courage to say publicly. I have said is that the Committee needs to thoroughly review any instances where Unsportsmanlike Behavior might have occurred and come to a fair and unbiased determination of what happened and hand down any penalties that are appropriate.
Two weeks ago, Dio wrote the managers to complain that he entered the BASL being told that this was a modified fast pitch league, and had already faced two slingshot pitchers. As someone already said, it's new to him but the rest of us have been around this situation for a few years. I wrote to Dio then because I wanted him to understand the situation and realize that he was not alone believing that he had been misled. If you think Dio has an issue with me, ask him.
For Mr. Anonymous to imply that I am "blaming violent behavior on others" or that the blame should be placed "where it belongs...on the perpetrators themselves" is a statement of supreme stupidity and cowardice. I have not said anything about any games nor passed judgement on others because I was not there. This is the Committee's role, and I am not on it. Mr. A is the one here who has already convicted the Highlanders of "thuggish behavior" and now follows it up by claiming they engaged in "violent behavior." Have you asked the Highlanders if whatever happened in the past two weeks has to do with John Brown?
My mistake, which I take responsibility for, was pitching John Miranda in game two against West. John Miranda is any more or less sling than Rameesh, Armando, Rocca. Pete, Langer, Parker, Terry, etc. But I shouldn't have thrown him against West because they are one of the few teams that has not been throwing slingers. That's my bad. It is the first time all year that John Miranda started a game for me. It happened because Doc called on Sun AM to say he couldn't make it because his son had a high temperature. I started John without really thinking it through. However, I would have no problem starting Miranda against teams who put out slingers.
I would be very surprised if the West players said their decision to leave the league was because of facing Miranda on Sunday or because of JB. Many West guys have been upset for a while because they believe Carlos has been singled out and not allowed to pitch when other slingers are. I hope that my putting John Miranda on the mound on Sunday is not the "final straw" of an anger that has been building up. I apologize to John Sheppard and West. They have been more honest than most teams in the league and I have nothing but respect for them.
I appreciate Wilfredo taking credit for the first comment, which I have no issue with. As for the other Mr. Anonymoussies, time to come out of the closet.
John Rosenmiller
"Sling" refers to the whip in the arm motion. Everyone who plays modified knows that. No homework or analysis needed. Nothing else matters, if you whip, you're illegal for 10 man modifed. End of story, its not really complicated.
DeleteWhat's done is done; what has passed it passed, what's been said or opined is subjective. How this all started and all that has transpired until now is moot.
ReplyDeleteThis all boils down to one thing: FAIRNESS. Ultimately what all humans want (what true sportsmen crave) is honest, balanced, fair competition no matter the skill level. Until this league figures out a way of leveling the playing field we will continue this unnecessary and fruitless discourse. Debating endlessly about shades of grey will never end in a true resolution.
For the future of this great league to prosper it must make a tough decision once and for all - It's all or nothing; no in between:
Either full sling with bunting/stealing
OR
strict modified with a published ban list
Take your pic BASL, and we urge you to make it soon.
I agree. All comments should be signed. This might eliminate all of the negative comments that are made without substantiation. Regarding the pitching situation I agree that it has gotten out of control. I did read all of the posts and disagree with the fact that Armondo and the Rangers are responsible for all of the problems in the League. Also as far as Anonymous who said we wouldn't make the playoffs without Armondo....I respect your opinion but I've heard that about every other successful team for the past 20 years. Quality pitching is a huge factor in this sport. However do your homework...We've made the playoffs just about every year and Armondo has only been pitching for us for the past 3 years. So your classless argument doesn't make any sense. And please don't discount the excellent pitching of Manny Rodriguez. I'll put him up against any pitcher in the league today.
ReplyDeleteJim
Starring in today's performance...
ReplyDeleteRosenmiller as Richard Nixon (misunderstood), bitros as Jimmy carter (good guy not appreciated), Ricky as young Fidel Castro (planning the coup) Castro, Dio as MLK (fighting for softball rights), JOhn Sheppard as a retired Winston Churchill (dont wanna fight no more).
- Blondie
aka the snake
Anyone else ever see so much drama in a softball league? Ridiculous. All of the in-fighting, self-justification and excuses just proves that there is a huge divide in this league. It's all brought on by the pitching problem. Talent around the field is better than ever, so that's a positive. As Jim says above, pitching is important in this sport, but it shouldn't dominate to the point where this kind of discord is going on. Wake up John, Commissioner Marcus, Committee members, managers! You have brought us to this point! Do the right thing and get us out of it!
ReplyDeleteJust look at the website. Runs Scored has dropped almost 2 runs per team per game in the past 7-8 years. Outrageous. Just show some honesty and some leadership. As someone mentioned above, either turn this into a true fast-pitch league with bunting, stealing and only 3 OFs, or return the league to its prosperous and fun roots. Every pitcher over a certain level is simply banned, regardless of motion or delivery. Have an honest discussion about what that level is, come to a consensus and immediately ban any pitcher over that level. This is exactly what I recommended the last time Rick brought up this issue.
If you want to call that a penalty on being great, so be it. 4 OFs and restricted flight balls already favor the defense, so superstar pitching totally changes the equation. We all admire great players, but the pitching system has somehow gotten WORSE not better as more teams have tried to "join 'em if you can't beat em." So demoralizing that West is dropping out and other teams will follow suit. A TERRIBLE precedent if teams drop out during a season.
Stop hanging on to your self-interest and stupid arguments justifying what is so clearly destroying the league. Otherwise, we all lose and there will be a lot of strangers in our place next season.
--Very Concerned
What "Very Concerned" wrote is spot on regarding all the drama. Going forward I can embrace the idea that every pitcher over a certain level is banned....but we'll probably have an insane debate as to what that level is. Also would hate to see West drop out. They are an excellent team with a bunch of good guys. Hopefully we can solve the problem once and for all.
ReplyDeleteJim B.
Ok...I guess it's officially my turn to comment:
ReplyDeleteBefore I begin I just want to let everyone know that it is me, Dio Jackson, who states the following:
We, the Highlanders, played West, Radio Free and the Cardinals in competitive, fair and modified pitching games. We went 4-2. When we played Bros. Jimmy's we beat them Game 1 again in a fair game. No issues, no problems, no complaints. A good, solid game.
It was Game 2 when the shit hit the fan.
Bros Jimmy's decided to pitch Rocca...need I say more? Ok I will...
It was me, Dio Jackson, who informed Nick and his team that since they couldn't beat us in a fair modified pitching game, they needed to resort to "cheating". I "threatened" him and his team by letting them know that if we ever faced them again they had my word that I would throw a slinger at them in order to balance the playing field. If it means me having to pay Kakito, Solito, Solano or any other dominating Dominican pitcher I can pick up...I would do it.
The game was played, there were arguments and derogatory comments made by both teams throughout the game. Everything else was men acting like boys. At least that's what I thought.
Quite frankly, I believe the umpires did an excellent job of taking control of the situation. Both teams were given a warning and that was that. Bros Jimmy's beat us in Game 2. Both teams lined up and shook hands.
As far as I was concerned, everything was taken care of at the field. Now I'm hearing Bros Jimmy's went to the Commish and complained about our "behavior". Really Nick?! LMFAO!
I followed up with a general email to Jeff copying all Managers letting them know my thoughts and that something had to be done about the illegal pitching as this would lead to problems we would all regret later. No feedback given.
Last week, we faced the Rangers and I was not present. I gathered information and if what I hear is true, both Fran and Bobby (of my team) need to be held accountable and should be suspended. Same goes for any Rangers players who were involved.
If you want to hold us to the rules and suspend us for acting "thuggish" (I'm not sure what that really means) and in an "unsportsmanlike behavior"...that's fine. But here's my question...isn't illegal pitching also in the rule book? When will the league enforce those rules and hold the teams accountable who have illegal pitching?
Rick you have it right, I am no Saint but I will stand by what I believe in. If I pay for a service, it needs to be delivered. I signed up for a "modified" league. This shit is "open" and anything goes in terms of pitching. I get it and I'll make the adjustment if given the opportunity.
It's softball gentlemen...it's not personal. At least I don't believe it to be.
I'm not into the "who has the biggest dick" thing. I would lose. I'm short and Hispanic. Don't be fooled by my last name.
Have a Happy Mother's Day!
- Dio Jackson
All the pitching issues aside, and there are many. The incident that occurred on Sunday against the Rangers had nothing at all to do with pitching. It was Franny disputing our runner not touching 3rd base on his way home to score. I was the 3rd base coach and he clearly touched the base to the point where your 3rd baseman had to move the base back into position. He as much agreed with me, but said nothing to Franny who went ballistic over the call by the umpires. This is what triggered the rest of the days incredibly horrible behavior by your team; in addition to the fact that Franny had been chugging beers before, during, and after his ejection following game 1. Had Franny been suspended from game 2 I venture to say that none of what happened leading to the game being called by the umps would have taken place. He was out of control, and in all my years in this league, which is longer than pretty much anyone else, I have never seen such behavior. Never! Your team did absolutely nothing to control the situation and eventually joined in the unsportsmanlike conduct. The umps and our commissioner also need to be accountable for their lack of involvement in controlling this ugly display of sportsmanship. Yes, the pitching needs to be addressed and resolved, but I don't see this happening as its been talked about ad nauseum. But there is no place for the type of behavior I, the kids and their parents experienced this past Sunday.
DeleteRobin Srebnick
Hello Robin, I'm not into going back and forth with posting messages on a blog. You can come talk to me next Sunday at the park.
DeleteThanks,
Dio
Hats off to Blondie , funniest comment ! and yes , I will hide behind anonymous , it's safer there . Away from all da " thugs " .
ReplyDeleteJason Collins?!
ReplyDeleteWow, such madness in that league. Fights, cheating, and trickery. Sounds like my kind of league.
ReplyDeleteCrazy that such a highly respected league is letting the pitching get carried away...I mean the issue for years with John Brown was ridiculous but now it's like a full blown epidemic...they funny thing is that people don't see the problem when they have the pitching but when the shoe is on the other foot then they see it clearly...Don't get me wrong if you wanna fork over good hard earned money for pitching then so be it but just realize you might not have a league to play in if the other teams have no chance...some banned list are not useful because there are a tons of guys on them who are in no way shape or form illegal...I've had the pleasure to playn against and play with Caquito and he is the best totally legal pitcher yet appears on banned list city wide...the man is not here to defend himself (DR) but he will flat out tell you there is no reason other than being too good as to why he's on these lists...JB is a great guy but he's ILLEGAL...Armando great guy but ILLEGAL...Miranda great guy but ILLEGAL...Ramesh as well but ILLEGAL...Rocca is a legend but ILLEGAL...Face thye facts it is what it is these guys are not just good but illegal...Once the determination has been made just live with it but don't call yourself a MODIFIED league and promote yourself as one then do the switch & bait routine on unsuspecting teams...it's not fair to anyone and will only lead to the downfall of a great league...it's not too late there is still time to do something about it and make the change to save it before the league folds like many others have already done...as the saying goes "there's a time and place for everything" modified is modified and sling is sling ...well actually i should say 10 man is 10man and 9 man is 9 man...that's the real root of this discussion...pitchers pitching legal 9 man rules in a 10 man game....
ReplyDeleteLast years championship matchup.
ReplyDeleteTwo pitchers, first year back in the league after being banned.
Two great hitting teams.
18 innings. 2 to 1 final score.
If this is how you want to play, you should play on Saturday or just reclassify BA to what it now is - a sling league.
Thats Mr. Anonymous to you.
ReplyDeleteI have to agree with Robin Srebnick's critique. Decisions need to be made about pitching-that is clear. But while this is an issue that needs to be addressed, it's not THE issue, unless your goal is to make an excuse for what happened during the games last Sunday, and maybe the week before too. It seems here that people are all to eager to use pitching as a justifiable reason for the out of control behavior by Franny and a few of his other Highlanders teammates. We all seem ready to let the anger issues and embarrassing behavior slide with the "Armondo made me do it" defense. Tell that to the parent of a child that could have easily been unknowingly struck when the Highlander pitcher unpredictably chose to hurl the ball blindly deep into a crowded park area out of anger. That's right-Armondo made him do it. Armondo made him call the umps F'n Fags and scream and yell. Armondo made another guy threaten to hang a guy on our bench, and force many of them to continue to loose their marbles during and after the games. Armondo made me do it. Funny how the Highlanders team was winning game 2...by the score of 1-0, and Armondo wasn't even pitching. But it was Armondo's fault, right? Right. It was also Armondo's fault that they couldn't field a full team-even after given a 35 minute grace period before Sunday's game. Nor did they have balls or bats. All Armondo's fault.
ReplyDeleteThis may be the right time and place to debate the pitching issue as well, but we can't sit here and justify insane behavior and blame other people for what we do. The pitching issue should be addressed, but don't be surprised when the above mentioned behavior continues even when the Armondos aren't around anymore to blame.
You worried about the league falling apart? This thread should focus on how we act on and off the field. And how we take responsibility for what we do.
Chuck
Rangers
Bunting and stealing. I like that idea.
ReplyDeleteNo Comment
ReplyDelete"Thuggish behavior"... curious wording....
ReplyDeleteLet me point out however that Hidden agendas and decisions made by "The committee" can just as easily be called thuggish behavior. Some of the worst decisions have been made by league officials - not just in the Big Apple Softball League.
Heated competition is healthy, and rules, and the impartial interpretation of the rules, is what each team can expect when decision making is put to the test.
All teams and players should be treated equally in accordance to the rules - it is really THAT SIMPLE.
Lose that and even when you "win it all" you are still a loser.
This is Hector aka #4 SS for WEST
ReplyDeleteLast team to win the BASL Championship with true modified pitchers throughout the regular season and playoffs. WEST. Next game that we(WEST) play, Karlos is gonna go. If hes called illegal, im walking off the field and i would retire from this league. If my team chooses to follow me. So be it. This has nothing to do with competition, cause i do love facing these guys. But it aint fair to the likes of the Edgar Gonzales'(best modified pitcher in my book) of the league. Every year i come back with the promises of "this year is gonna be different" and its just the same shit, even worse. Either follow the rules that you(mr commish or Board or whoever) wrote or open it up. get rid of the 4th outfielder add bunting and stealing after the pitch(not after it crosses the plate bullshit). Get rid of the ban lists for bats and change to dudleys for the balls and lets go
This is Wilfredo Enriquez, and not that I would make a difference but, if Hector walks I follow, and am willing to put up the $90 for forfeit fees. Ricky will call me a broken record but a record remains broken until the problem is resolved. Let Karlos pitch or sell what we are buying. And kudos to anonymous #30 for the extensive and non-thuggish use of your vocabulary. I have to assume that anyone that doesn't agree with the current conditions is also an (adjective here) cry baby.
ReplyDeleteThey call us crybabies but it's better than being a pu$$y hiding behind Anonymous!
ReplyDeleteJohn Albert
It's Bush's Fault.
ReplyDeleteJim B.
everyone talking about making it an open league and adding bunting and stealing and 9 fielders is forgeting 1 thing! WE DONT WANT TO PLAY IN A LEAGUE LIKE THAT !!!!! we did it years go on Saturdays and it was fun yes but i have to say its a young mans game and if i was still 25 i mightsay yes lets do it! but most of us r 30-40 somethings now that couldnt play in a league like that if they payed us to! and noones payin position players anyway ! you may have heard me screaming" let us use Carlos and we'll shut up about the pitching " but upon further thought that s not what i want . i want to play in a modified league. the league was always competetive before all these pitchers came in. say what u want about cedric and john brown but they didnt have a monopoly on the big apple championship! when contact was winning the chip 11 years in a row they were beating the john browns and cedrics of the world. and they werent using illeagal pitching ! they used the best defense around and good hitting! now i gotta listen to guys like "Doc" from sports ny style telling me to stop cryin because they got an illeagal guy coming in and dominating great lineups!!!! Doc a guy who s teams have never had a whiff of a championship! if u want a league of 1-0 games where you can show up with a slinger and 9 garbage cans and make it to the finals then dont change a thing! but if you want to go back to competitive games where the best TEAMS won not the best PITCHERS then we need to talk about a banned list!!! ANG 11 WEST!!!
ReplyDeleteWhat a sorry blog. This has been going on forever. Regardless who is legal or not is irrelevant. What is relevant is the lack of "sportsmanship"in a league which was once a pleasure to play in. Lets all not forget that we are playing on a little league field 46' 60'which is played on by 10 and 11 year old boys who are acting more mature and respectful of the game we grew up loving.
ReplyDeleteWho is Ang
ReplyDeleteNo more to say... or is there?
ReplyDeletewest is the problem.
ReplyDeleteHere are some great quotes that demonstrate just how important and valuable sportsmanship is.
ReplyDelete“Sportsmanship for me is when a guy walks off the court and you really can’t tell whether he won or lost, when he carries himself with pride either way.” – Jim Courier
“It is your response to winning and losing that makes you a winner or a loser.” – Harry Sheehy
“Victory is in the quality of competition and not the final score.” – Mike Marshall
“I never thought about losing, but now that it’s happened, the only thing is to do it right.” – Muhammad Ali
“Win or lose, do it fairly.” – Knute Rockne
“Class is striving hard to be the best at what you do while taking the needs of others into consideration” – Roger Staubach
“Always imitate the behavior of the winner when you lose.” – Unknown
“Victory is remembered for at most two decades; an act of good sportsmanship is remembered for a lifetime.” - Simon Nguyen
“After I hit a home run I had a habit of running the bases with my head down. I figured the pitcher already felt bad enough without me showing him up rounding the bases.” – Mickey Mantle
“Class always shows” – Paul Brown, NFL Coach, GM and Owner
“One man practicing sportsmanship is far better than a hundred teaching it.” – Knute Rockne
“Do you know what my favorite part of the game is? The opportunity to play.” – Mike Singletary
I saw on the Big Apple website that in Game one the big bad Highlanders were shut out...couldn't score a single freaking run. So what do bullies do when they get a beat down...they get nasty and violent. They can't beat a team on the field so they want to show their macho by trying to start a fight and beat a team with their fists. Pathetic.
ReplyDeleteThe sad part is how important it seems to be for some people to win. Win at any cost. Win no matter what. Whatever happened to a good old fashioned Sunday modified league where the playing field is fairly even. Where everyone has a good time hanging out with teammates. If winning is the be all and end all, then the problem isn't on the playing field, it's with the individuals life. Clearly not a happy one. Using the ball field to feel good about themselves. Sad really!
ReplyDeleteAs far as the pitching problem goes, the commissioner is 100% to blame. While the other babies wanted to win at any cost, he had the ability to simply say no. He has ignored this problem for many years. I have spoken to him at length many times about it but he has completely igonred it. Why? I wish I knew but now the league hangs in the balance and will die soon without a full change to modified. Teams and individuals get tired of coming down and facing the best in the city, knowing they'll be lucky to get a single hit for the day. Why waste an entire Sunday having basically no chance. For those who want "their big challenge" of facing the best, there are leagues out there. This league was NEVER intended to be like that. It wasn't like that unitl again, winning became all that mattered. Shame on those who live and think that way and shame on the commissioner for allowing this to take place. Shame on all who are responsible.
My sentiment exactly. Like someone else says, if you win the league, what do you get? A few minutes of a sense of accomplishment and a trophy to stash in the manager's apartment? This league used to be about friendly competition. Now, I don't recognize most of the faces, new players are less cordial, more disruptive and mercenary. Haven't ever heard this much trash-talking in a softball league before. I don't really blame the commissioner. He's done a lot for the league but everyone knows that the managers run it and wouldn't just accept an edict from the commissioner. The managers collectively, but particularly those from the teams who have imported the illegal/dominant pitchers, have ruined this league in the name of winning at all costs. On the one hand, I understand the unfairness of only having an exception for one or two pitchers, on the other hand the win at all costs mentality is terrible. This may be my last season in a league I have enjoyed above all others. My observation is that no one seems to be having much fun out there this year. I personally believe that the debate of legal vs. illegal is silly. As someone else said, virtually every pitcher has something "illegal" in his motion. To me, it's more that so many of the pitchers are unhittable, especially on such small fields with 4 outfielders, a little league mound and balls that don't carry much past the infield. Who exactly is that fun for?
DeleteAnd by the way the reason I used anonymous in the previous post is not because I'm a coward. It's because I am a family man and my team will be playing the Highlander this season and frankly I feel for my safety.
ReplyDeleteI have to agree with Robin Srebnick's critique. Decisions need to be made about pitching-that is clear. But while this is an issue that needs to be addressed, it's not THE issue, unless your goal is to make an excuse for what happened during the games last Sunday, and maybe the week before too. It seems here that people are all to eager to use pitching as a justifiable reason for the out of control behavior by Franny and a few of his other Highlanders teammates. We all seem ready to let the anger issues and embarrassing behavior slide with the "Armondo made me do it" defense. Tell that to the parent of a child that could have easily been unknowingly struck when the Highlander pitcher unpredictably chose to hurl the ball blindly deep into a crowded park area out of anger. That's right-Armondo made him do it. Armondo made him call the umps F'n Fags and scream and yell. Armondo made another guy threaten to hang a guy on our bench, and force many of them to continue to loose their marbles during and after the games. Armondo made me do it. Funny how the Highlanders team was winning game 2...by the score of 1-0, and Armondo wasn't even pitching. But it was Armondo's fault, right? Right. It was also Armondo's fault that they couldn't field a full team-even after given a 35 minute grace period before Sunday's game. Nor did they have balls or bats. All Armondo's fault.
ReplyDeleteThis may be the right time and place to debate the pitching issue as well, but we can't sit here and justify insane behavior and blame other people for what we do. The pitching issue should be addressed, but don't be surprised when the above mentioned behavior continues even when the Armondos aren't around anymore to blame.
You worried about the league falling apart? This thread should focus on how we act on and off the field. And how we take responsibility for what we do.
Chuck
Rangers
As one of the longest Big Apple players around I thought I'd clarify a few things about the Rangers Team.
ReplyDelete1) First and foremost, No one on the Rangers had anything to do with Armondo being on this team. I brought him to the league. My reason was simple, Why should Choice Parts be the only team with a questionable pitcher? As for Armondo being paid. I'll put that to rest also. I offered, He declined. Armondo is a classy guy and a great ball player as far as I am concerned. I played with him on a fast pitch Team and felt he could make the adjustment to our modified league. Which, In my opinion he has. I have watched plenty of video of him pitching. I was looking for something for him to change to be more compliant with modified rules. I couldn't find anything glaring in his delivery. I have seen Armondo at full sling and believe me, he is MUCH less hit-able then he is in our league.
2)I have gone to Several Modified Tournaments with, James Parker, John Miranda, Cedrick, Rameesh (to name a few) and I don't recall them ever being called illegal. Just very good pitchers. I remember when people were saying Cedrick was illegal and too dominant for the league.
3) To say that John Brown is not Dominant is Laughable. Why is it that when JB was the only (slightly?) Illegal pitcher in the League, Choice Parts was always in the Championship game? I don't mind playing a strict modified game but the rules Have to apply to EVERYONE (no Grandfather Clauses)...JB has 2 legal pitches. A straight fastball and a very good change-up but when he needs an out, it's a little different of a release. I don't mind playing with these slight imperfections in the game but to say he is legal and should be playing while everyone else is banned is just as bad for the league.
4) I agree with Hector of West. Edgar Gonzales is a great example of a truly modified pitcher and I would play behind him any day. But almost everyone else has something they do slightly Illegal on the mound.
5) Highlanders have some talented guys on their team. Had they have shown up with a full squad and ready to play on Sunday, I believe game one could have been a much tougher game for the Rangers to win. 8 guys, 1 game ball, few bats, borrowing gloves and Franny getting tossed is a tough way to win any game. That said, berating my third baseman, yapping to our third base coach and talking trash after every out is not how you show class. Even after the second game was called and some of the ranger's took the field for practice they continued to chatter. 1 player even rode a bike onto the infield to try and cause a disruption. I have had my out-burst at officials and altercations with players when I was young and immature but I grew up and realized I have a job to go to on Monday and winning the championship in the Big Apple doesn't change that fact. We all do this for fun and we don't have to all like each other but as adults we should be able to behave and have fun together. I take my children to the playground and they play with kids they don't know and have fun with one another and we civilized adults can't master what my 7 and 4 year olds can?
Just my opinion on the matters at hand. Make the rules apply to everyone and lets have fun on the field
John Carter
Rangers SS
And you think all those pitchers you just named are legal for modified? Now that's funny! Best laugh in weeks.
ReplyDeleteI didn't say they were legal, I just said they never got called in a tournament I was at with them!
ReplyDeleteJohn Carter
Rangers SS
I also said Edgar Gonzales is what I consider to be Legal Modified!!! For the record!!!
ReplyDeleteJohn Carter
Rangers SS
Gonzalez with a z
ReplyDeleteWhy did Chuck post the same comment twice????
ReplyDeleteIs that that little homo Castillo makin comments after mine!!! LIL bit you should remember me well CHUMP!!!
ReplyDeleteANG WEST HK !!
YO how did that feel when you went to your team and told them u just got beat up and they said "SO" LMAO !!!!
ReplyDeleteand you gave me a pound after i hit a homerun in that game too! LMAO!!!
ReplyDeleteEdgar Gonzalez, with a Z... ugh!!! I should never make that mistake!!!!
ReplyDeleteI wasn’t going to answer your reply, but thought more of it and although hesitantly, I felt it necessary to respond. I don’t know why I am the only one fighting the fight, the majority of teams are the ones that are being wronged, or maybe I am the one that is wrong. Regardless this is my last post and will not be reading anymore responses.
ReplyDelete“First and foremost, No one on the Rangers had anything to do with Armondo being on this team. I brought him to the league.”
Thank you for taking responsibility for bringing Armondo into the league. You have successfully lowered the crosshairs off of Choice Parts and placed your team directly in its path. However, if this were a arrestable crime, everyone on your team would be accountable. Do not fret, so would your opponents for allowing it to happen and abetting in the crime.
“My reason was simple, Why should Choice Parts be the only team with a questionable pitcher?”
So in essence, you thought you were being cheated (some of time) and think it’s okay to cheat your opponent (the league) all the time.
“As for Armondo being paid. I'll put that to rest also. I offered, He declined. Armondo is a classy guy and a great ball player as far as I am concerned.”
I am sure he is, his character has NEVER been questioned.
“I have seen Armondo at full sling and believe me, he is MUCH less hit-able then he is in our league.”
This makes everything alright, just as it does when they tell me Rocca is toning it down.
“I have gone to Several Modified Tournaments with, James Parker, John Miranda, Cedrick, Rameesh (to name a few) and I don't recall them ever being called illegal. Just very good pitchers. I remember when people were saying Cedrick was illegal and too dominant for the league.” Ryu00
It’s only a matter of time when they will be the only ones pitching in the league.
As to your #3, John Brown cheats when he needs an out. So to fight a sometimes cheater, you get an illegal pitcher (by modified rules) 100% of the time. Also, why is it that no one gives credit to the team behind John Brown and the bench. You want a good rule, 4th illegal pitch in a season and you are barred from pitching the rest of the season. Here’s an even better suggestion, ENFORCE THE RULES! Now to tackle my favorite comment from #3, everyone else is not pitching, you either forgot to mention, or skirted the Karlos issue. Why is it good for you, but not him? Let me just say here that I am totally against Karlos pitching rule compliant teams. That being said, if he pitches against Diesel or Choice Parts the league will fold, perception is reality.
#5 I can’t attest to, because I wasn’t there, other than I consider some of you my friends and when a presumed friend tries to take advantage of you in an effort to win at all cost and advertise is as the greater good, I question their friendship and motives. I try to treat you with respect and treat you as I would like to be treated, I fall short many times, as I am too sensitive and take things personally, but never would I cheat or steal from you. To combat John Brown (really Choice Parts) you chose to take the lower road and have a Devil May Care attitude toward the rest of the league. I have now taken the attitude toward some teams that there is no need to shake hands at the end of the games. I don’t need to congratulate you for stealing from me, all the while telling me it’s raining, while I know you’re really pissing on me. This is my last post on this issue, no need to reply. Remember, perception is reality. I think it’s pretty clear that if the situation does not change there will be some empty slots this season and more next season.
#5 is spot on. I feel betrayed by people I thought were my friends, or at least my softball brethren. Many of you out there have resorted to cheating outright or at least cheating the spirit of this league's rules. New teams have not proven good for the league at all the last few years in my opinion. The last teams that came in and were a positive impact were Empire, Skins and, to a lesser extent, Working Class. New teams since then have really been a negative, especially this year. I'm really discouraged this year. I hear a lot of grumbling that several teams may not be back...would be terrible to blow up a league that has been around so long and so successful. This is a crisis people.
DeleteSorry, last comment would be from Wil(fredo) (Wolfie) Enriquez
ReplyDeleteNow we all see what kind of man Carter is. I always knew.
ReplyDeleteGood blog idea... knock JC
ReplyDeleteI want to be comment number 100
ReplyDeleteWizard of Oz, Rice, Tommy and Sarge. The Suberbas and Kings and the Regulars. Legends. Not to be compared or confused with this league.
ReplyDeleteCedric and Parker are 10 man legal. Period.
ReplyDeleteball outside the wrist (cedric) is illegal in 10 man...very legal in 9 man though
DeleteFunny again
ReplyDeleteFor the record Armndo's introduction into the League was with Contact 4 years ago.
ReplyDeleteLets get back to Johnny C
ReplyDeleteHe's a Pu$$!!!! ang!
ReplyDeleteCedric is ten man legal! never had a problem with him !!! but no FUCKIN way is Parker legal ill say it till i die!!!! Ang 11 West HK!!!
ReplyDeleteIt seems nothing was done about the pitching after all. League dies within 2 years.
ReplyDeleteParker is legal. That is a joke.
ReplyDeleteRicky publishes a meaningful, passionate and entertaining blog. What have you done, last anonymous poster, that is so much smarter?
ReplyDeleteLet's focus on the most relevant issue facing this once GREAT league: FAIRNESS. Can we please for once put aside the endless dribble pointed at individuals, years of indecision and complacency, blind obsession with winning, selfish egos, and hubris?! Without a deliberative decision, BASL will either way suffer the consequences.
9 man sling with bunting/stealing
OR
10 man strict modified with a ban list
BASL is clearly a league that has reached a crossroads. Decision or not, the time for action is now....
You're right. The real issues is fairness and you're right again when you say it once was a great league. No longer is. Your statement about the "blind obsession with winning" is right on the mark. We have a commissioner who is a really good man but a really bad commissioner. His complacency as the league was turning over to sling is the major culprit other than the must win at any cost mentality that exists among the team managers. You are right again when you say 9 man sling or 10 man modified with a banned list. My guess is neither will happen. They'll leave it up to the umpires to make it right which is bad choice. Just get a banned list and move on. Won't happen. Things will get far worse and ultimately many teams and or players will leave and the league will suffer the unfortunate consequences. The league will likely not exist soon enough or will fall apart enough because of the loss of players or teams that it won't be fun any more. The sad end is upon us. Too bad. It didn't have to happen. The big egos are still in control. The win at any cost mentality remains.
ReplyDelete9 man sling with bunting/stealing
ReplyDeletemy vote
This next comment might make me sound a lil full of myself but im gonna make it anyway! the way i see it, i have been playing modified fastpitch softball in central park and all over this city since the early 1990,s . and with the exception of the 1 or 2 years that i played on the saturday open league where i had the pleasure of meeting and facing great pitchers like Rocca,Rameshe,Mikos,Solano. ihave never seen these guys play in any of the other mdified leagues that i have been in over that time. before two years ago i had never met Armando, Miranda ,Parker. there is a reason that i had never met those guys or faced the gentlemen that i mentioned earlier!!!!!!! THEY ARE ILLEAGAL IN EVERY LEAGUE IN THIS CITY THATS NOT OPEN!!!!!!! So the way i see it kinda is if i dont know them then they are ILLEAGAL!!!! and im sure there are a hundred guys in our league that have been around as long or longer than i have that can make the same claim!!! So lets take the blinders of folks and call it what it is!! THESE GUYS ARE NOT LEGAL MODIFIED PERIOD!!! GET RID OF THEM!!! Before the league folds! ANG WEST HK 11 !
ReplyDeleteI can just see you screaming the words you write. HILARIOUS! Your spelling should be ILLEGAL!
DeleteI've been saying the exact same thing for a long time. Whether illegal or just plain too good for the reasons mentioned by others in these posts, it doesn't really matter. The line was crossed by Choice Parts many years ago and teams finally got sick of accommodating the exception that JB always got. And now we're stuck with the worst situation the league has faced since I have been a part of it. Banned list is only sensible way to go.
The league will fold Ang. Higher ups have egos that won't quit. It's that sad and simple. Your note was perfectly stated. No one will listen. No one cares.
ReplyDeleteTomorrow is the day. Lets see Karlos.
ReplyDeleteNotice John Brown is conveniently left off of the Anonymous May 16, 2013 10:30 AM Posting discussing banned pitchers. Hmmmmmmmm.
ReplyDelete?
ReplyDeleteWhat are you saying? Ang likes JB?
ReplyDeleteWell as far as i know the issue has been resolved this way . Carlos goes against any questionable sling guys! if you start a modified guy u see edgar , start a slinger and u get LOS!!!! not how i want it but hey we have to be able to defend ourselves against all these guys dying t win at all cost!! and just to let u know guess how much its costing us to have LOS pitch for us ???? $0! thats the meaning of PALS!!!! haters! ANG HK 11!!!
ReplyDeleteGreat concept, Ang, but it points out the definitional problem that the league faces. For example... JB isn't fully legal modified, but he doesn't sling. Langer slings. But JB is better than Langer. So against whom does West unleash the wrath of Carlos?
DeletePerpetrators, collaborators, bystanders, victims: we can be clear about three of these categories. The bystander, however, is the fulcrum. If there are enough notable exceptions, then protest reaches a critical mass. We don’t usually think of history as being shaped by silence, but, as English philosopher Edmund Burke said, ‘The only thing necessary for the triumph [of evil] is for good men to do nothing.’ (The Henrik Hudson School District Library Media Centre)
ReplyDeleteIf you’re HK then it’s great! The squeaky wheel does get the oil, however, what about the rest of the league? It’s true that the complaining and protest have been HK by far, and I guess in attempt to appease them they were offered a carrot on a stick. The league is hemorrhaging and they’re supplied a band-aid. Not sure what this decision accomplished other than silence the loudest voice. It's time for the rest of the league to ban together!!
"ban together" -- awesome!
DeleteWhat are rules for anyway
ReplyDeleteGreat, so now another unhittable pitcher has been added to the mix. What a great solution. You managers are really doing an awesome job. Contragulations. You've now collectively proven why a league MUST have a commissioner as dictator. In paid leagues, it's simple...the guy who runs the league makes the rules. Ric wrote a blog about the interests of the many vs. the interests of the one. About 7-8 managers now operate only with self-interest now which has led to utter disaster for this league. Fuck everyone else, I want to win a trophy and give a tearful speech in November! How dishonest. Win with pitchers you have to pay, guys you don't even know personally. What a joke. Disgusting. Just call it what it is at this point, an open league. Anything goes. The best team never wins the BASL, only the best pitcher. Why bother?
ReplyDeleteI used to play in a great league in Riverdale. There were a lot teams, great competition, and a great atmosphere/softball vibe. The commissioner was a great guy who would hold bbqs and buy beer for everyone. Unfortunately, he became an alcoholic and league started to go to shit. In the middle of a season, about 10 teams had a meeting and voted him out. We put one of the managers in charge for the rest of the year. That guy revived the league and its credibility. That was 1989; that manager was Freddy Gonzalez who still runs Summer and Fall leagues throughout the Bronx with over 150 teams. Point is.....You have a lot of smart in the BASL; lots of experienced/great softball players and the prime softball stage. You need leadership. Get together and put the right person in charge. You could find at least 5 candidates in these comments alone. Just do it.
ReplyDeleteSo instead of making the Big Apple MORE legal modified it is going to be even LESS legal. What a surprise (not).
ReplyDeleteHow will the slingers who have tried to modify their motion(Parker,Terry,Rocca,Langer,Miranda,Armando,etc.) now throw after they have watched Carlos?
Who will Highlanders bring out now?
Big Apple has become the joke of NYC softball.
Response to mr perpetrator collaborater!!!! West did not want it this way jerkoff!!!!! West only wants to play on an even playing field!!! Why should we have to throw legal guys when the whole league is throwing illegals!! We are not the good men doing nothing WE have been saying it all along jerkoff mr annonymous!! have some balls and sign your shit punk!!! ang hk 11!!!!
ReplyDeletesO ITS BIG BAD WEST VS THE rest of the league huh! again i say we did not want this ! as i said earlier i dont want to play in a sling league and i think most of you are with me! but you cant say oh that guy is more illegal than that guy! get rid of them or shut the @#$% up!!!! in a sling league we will survive! dont know if i can say the same for the rest of you!!!! ANG HK 11!!!
ReplyDelete